Harlow’s Brexit Party candidate: “Nigel has made it clear that Boris Johnson’s Deal is not Brexit.”
News / Fri 1st Nov 2019 at 02:23pm
TODAY Nigel Farage launched the Brexit Party’s General Election campaign in Westminster. Neil Greaves, the Brexit Party’s Parliamentary Candidate for Harlow said “It is great to get our campaign officially under way. Nigel has made it clear that Boris Johnson’s Deal is not Brexit.”
“We did not vote to annexe Northern Ireland and we did not vote for this dreadful “Political Declaration”.
“Labour’s policy on Brexit is equally poor; negotiate a deal then campaign against it.”
“I will be the only candidate standing on a Clean Break Brexit and the only candidate who will deliver the Brexit that the good people of Harlow overwhelmingly voted for.”
Trust in our politicians is at an all-time low. That is why the Brexit Party slogan is ‘Changing Politics for Good’. That means replacing the House of Lords with a smaller elected second chamber, calling a by-election when MPs change political parties, implementing Proportional Representation and changing our flawed postal voting system.”
“If we truly want change, now is the time to drain the swamp.”
jhumphreys84
2019-11-01 15:08:01
Genuinely surprised to hear that the Brexit party would like proportional representation...really am surprised. Would love someone to explain why they've gone for that. I get the theory behind a PR system in that you rank your favourite and then the lowest gets knocked out and their votes transferred to their second favourite and so on until you get a clear majority over 50% for one candidate. Gives some legitimacy as opposed to whoever wins gets it no matter how big or small a majority, meaning that a Prime Minister could actually get fewer votes than the second party, just by clever targeting of seats. The fatal flaw with this system is that what can happen is that everyone second favourite party ends up becoming the winner, and that's usually the Lib Dem's in the case of UK (always usually a liberal party worldwide even), simply as they take the knocked out votes of the Conservative or Labour favourite when they get knocked out in 3rd place. Confusing, especially when the electorate are just not used to it. This is where i'm struggling with Brexit Party. Because of the polarised views, you're likely to vote for them if you want them to win, but not many are likely have them as a second party, otherwise you'd have already voted for their single cause. Unless they're hoping to get the second votes of Conservative (which they won't of remainer Conservatives obviously), but that then leads to vote splitting and not eating into Labour or Lib Dem's of which some may go to Brexit Party, but not as many as i think they hope for. Looking at Harlow in 2015 and 2017 elections, Conservatives have a healthy majority and over 54%, so in fact, that's one undermining factor for PR there. If a good chunk of that swings away to Brexit Party then Labour will have a good chance under PR as the numbers from Green and Lib Dem will push it into first place, with the other two being split. It'll take an enormous swing from Conservative to Brexit Party to make PR work but that just isn't there as that'll filter off to Lib Dems with remainer Conservatives going there. That'll then convert into Labour at the end as Brexit will be way down the list, which would be an unintended consequence for those original Conservative voters. All PR could do in Harlow is actually give a false reading of what the electorate really voted for and give Labour an uncatchable lead with either Conservatives second or Brexit Party second. If Brexity Party get second it will be because the Conservative remainer vote has simply trickled away into the hands of Labour, who will profit from it. The only way i can see this policy working is via AV top up, where all the country votes are added together after the original PR then a layer of additional seats are awarded based on vote numbers. But again, Brexit party would only get a couple of seats based on the calculation. Under the current first past the post i can't see Brexit Party getting more than a handful of seats if any, maybe in some place in the north east like Hartlepool. Under PR i see even fewer as i've tried to think out above. Under AV top up, yeah they'll get a few, but that's utter desperation to find any seats and almost an admission that they're not going to win anything outright. Then we end up with a mess of a minority government and or/coalitions which is kind of what we've had anyway since 2010. Not really seeing how that's a change for good...
kthe5
2019-11-01 17:57:18
jhumphreys - I suspect that the only reason the Farage Fan Club are interested in PR is because that it what is used in the Euro Elections and no other reason. In the same way that "LEAVE" didn't say how to leave, there are different forms of PR. It would be somewhat ironic if this bunch were to advocate the exact same form of PR as used in the Euro Elections. You mention Hartlepool as a possible win for the Farage Fan Club. Farage seems to think his Fan Club can attract Labour-Leave voters. Research indicates this assumption may be incorrect: https://www.britishelectionstudy.com/uncategorized/is-nigel-farage-a-threat-to-labour/#.XbxiudWnyUn “now is the time to drain the swamp.” I seem to remember Trump saying the exact same thing. Trump is the swamp. Farage is the methane.
20thcenturyman
2019-11-01 19:29:47
Yet again jhumphreys84 you are the first in to disparage anything from the Harlow Brexit Party. I take it you are the official Harlow Brexit Party troll and that you are a member if the Conservative Party? You must be really rattled to spend so much time and effort in trying to belittle the Harlow Brexit Party. Unlike you I do have a life - but I will challenge your blatant propaganda each time. All that guff...…. of course you haven't challenged the main statement - Boris Johnson's Deal is NOT Brexit. That speaks volumes. you know it isn't Brexit. Oh. and kthe5 - We are not "The Farage Fan Club" - just people who believe in Democracy. Your statement "Research indicates this assumption MAY be incorrect" - also means it MAY be correct. "Sticks and Stones" - and all that eh?
jhumphreys84
2019-11-01 20:09:38
Nope not a Conservative party member. Just someone who doesn’t like to see the electorate mislead with half quotes chopped up to suit an argument, policies that are either unachieveable or will end up with people getting hurt and randomly picking policies that kind of sound good with no idea of what they actually mean in practice. Which is why I keep finding myself commenting on the Brexit Party pieces on here as I find them very misleading and quite frankly backwards. But don’t worry I do also pull up the labour and Conservative policies that I don’t think make sense. I didn’t go after the deal because hey it’s pretty much done, EU agree with it, most of the MPs do so that’s kind of it, it’s not likely to change. It just has to be delivered as per what people voted for. But Brexit Party don’t seem to be listening to the fact that it’s done and just making popularist statements with no idea how to fix it without causing damage. If that makes me an official Brexit party troll, then great I’ll accept that, as long as it stops people buying into the utter nonesense that’s being spouted on a regular basis.
20thcenturyman
2019-11-01 21:07:55
Here you go again jhumphreys84 - Just because pretty much the whole establishment wish us to be tied to the EU does not mean we have to accept their riding roughshod over the result of a democratic vote. Of course the EU agree with it - it keeps us under their thumb. Agree? - they must be ecstatic. We voted to leave, all the Parties agreed to honour the vote - which was to LEAVE the EU. Clean Break Brexit - that's not populist - it's the only way out. As for nonsense being spouted on a regular basis - "Pot - Kettle"?
kthe5
2019-11-01 21:42:26
20thcenturyman We are not “The Farage Fan Club” Yes you are. The main political parties - Conservatives, Labour, Lib Dems, Green - have members who can vote for their leaders and policies to various degrees. The Farage Fan Club has very few members. The Farage Fan Club claimed main source of income is the £25 subscription. For which a person becomes a "supporter" and has the right to say nice things about The Farage Fan Club. Which they had before they paid the £25. "just people who believe in Democracy." How was the leader of The Farage Fan Club democratically chosen? How can the leader of The Farage Fan Club be removed if the supporters don't like their policies? Who choses who is going to stand for The Farage Fan Club in elections? "also means it MAY be correct." And yet you offer no evidence to support your argument. I can't decide if this is a classic "Strawman Argument" or maybe "Appeal to Ignorance". No, I think I've got it, it's "False Dilemma/False Dichotomy" aka “either-or fallacy”. This line of reasoning fails by limiting the options to two when there are in fact more options to choose from. “Sticks and Stones” “Pot – Kettle” I suggest you don't run with scissors.
RayMo
2019-11-02 03:29:48
I am a fan of Nigel and have nothing but contempt for the left. All we want is what we voted (& won) for, nothing more . Out means out.
MickyB77
2019-11-03 15:50:07
Very saucy of you kthe5. Whatever next ?
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