Harlow MP Chris Vince: “Removing the tax exemption on private schools is not the politics of envy”
Chris Vince / Wed 9th Oct 2024 at 02:44pm
HARLOW MP Chris Vince rose on the floor of the House of Commons to speak in a debate on the planned imposition of VAT on private schools.
Chris Vince said: “Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to speak in this debate.
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2024-10-08a.164.1&s=speaker%3A26350#g209.0
I find it incredible that, after 14 years and an abysmal record on education, Conservative Members want a debate on education, but somehow I am not surprised. I often joked that, if they had the opportunity, they would blame teachers for the sinking of the Titanic—although I was told that they had actually done so recently.
As a former teacher, I saw the Conservative Government’s abysmal record on education at first hand. In fact, I am standing here in this House because of it. When the former Member for Surrey Heath declared that the majority of teachers were letting down the children that they teach, I saw red. I knew that only those people who donned the red rosette could fix the mess created by 14 years of ideological cuts. Between 2010 and 2020, spending per pupil in England fell by 9% in real terms. One in eight schools were in deficit by the end of 2023, and two out of three local authorities are struggling to find funding for SEND provision in their schools.
In 2022, 40% of trainee teachers failed to qualify and left because of the unmanageably high workload. Having recently spoken to several teachers in Essex, I know the profound impact that 14 years of Tory mismanagement has had on their mental health. But it is worse than that. In 2012, Essex county council first raised with the Government the issue of RAAC in our schools, and the Government said that there was no money to fix it. Now, in 2024, the failure to properly tackle this issue has been borne out. Last week I visited Jerounds primary school, one of the many brilliant primary schools in Harlow, which is currently unable to provide hot food to its children because its kitchen is still closed due to RAAC. Sir Frederick Gibberd school in Harlow cost £29 million to build, and because of the failure of the last Government is having to be pulled down.
The education system is broken, and it is broken by Tory design. Labour has a plan to fix the education system, but it requires difficult decisions. Removing the tax exemption on private schools is not the politics of envy, but it is a necessary action, which will generate between £1.3 billion and £1.5 billion for the UK Government—to invest in our schools, to invest in our teachers, and to provide the people of Harlow, of Essex and across our country with the best possible education. I will take no lectures from the Conservative party about education.
Adam
2024-10-09 15:47:46
There is no tax exemption and those that think there are have fallen for a narrative. A tax exemption would for example be there being a life time limit on pension tax contributions, but then a specific law being passed to create a exemption for specific person. This tax exemption happened for Kier Starmer https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/2588/introduction/made . In reality education has as a public good has rightly never been subjected to VAT, this is ideological and the second order effects of more pupils going to state school make the situation worse. If you want more money for state school teachers the answer is simple stop spending billions on crazy ideas e.g. net zero, GB energy etc. But labour know all this they in reality want to get back at the who they see as the Toffs are and coming from a ex teacher like Chris (though i doubt he was any good at it) he should be ashamed as it will damage children and their education.
Guy Flegman
2024-10-09 16:05:39
This is about as ill thought out as it gets. Suddenly the struggling state schools will be flooded with extra students that will be forces to leave the private sector( 20% is a lot of money)teachers at private schools will be made redundant and have to retrain to join the state sector, the private schools will become even more exclusive to the rich, and some people will just up sticks and take their families to a country that treats them better. The really big thing though is I think you will find that we are the only country in the developed word( probably the whole world) that taxes education. Do we really want that stigma? Also I have heard it will not even raise much taxation if any at all. Then what about people in state schools who pay for occasional private tutors to fill the gaps in the poor tuition, are they to be punished too! Remember our state education system has been in decline since the 60’s so you cannot blame a single party for this. They are all to blame and I don’t see this leopard changing its spots anytime soon. The real reason education has declined is because we no longer require a workforce with a high education due to the march of technology, and the politicians have never wanted an educated electorate. Smart people just get in the way of agendas. Note niether I nor anyone in my family has ever been privately educated.
Bibby
2024-10-09 16:18:49
If they think paying for education should be taxed why are they not taxing university fees?
Adam
2024-10-09 16:24:27
Guy you said the quiet part out loud government definitely do not want critical thinkers. State schools are nothing but indoctrination into being a worker drone. Notice they never teach you about being your own boss, or debt or personal finance etc. The most conformist and frankly dumb people I have ever met are teachers, they have only ever been to school they have no life experience, imagine being an adult and still waiting for school holidays. There is some truth in the saying that those who cannot do, teach. My son is educated privately and I would home school or emigrate before I sent them to one of the frankly horrendous schools in Harlow which breed nothing but dependency and hopelessness.
Seamus
2024-10-09 23:08:31
Aha, the Scarlet pimpernel appears and once again towing the party line without even checking the facts. Bibby mentions, what about universities, they are after all private business's that charge fee's for an educational service that not every child can afford and yet are not having this attack and will keep the vat exemption. I may have quoted this before? Look up in your search engine "Student loan statistics house of commons library, published Wednesday the 10th of July 2024" what follows should frighten people. "Currently £20 billion per year is loaned to around 1.5 million higher education students in England. The value of outstanding loans at the end of March 2024 reached £236 billion. The Government forecasts the value of outstanding loans to reach around £500 billion (2023‑24 prices) by the late-2040s." So you have to ask, why hasn't labour gone after the £236 billion still owed by students? A pattern is emerging that Labour despite it's electoral promises are NOT going after the nom doms, the universities, the unions, the big money but ARE going after the little guys. Pensioners, pension savers, everyday parents who exercise choice for their small kids/special needs kids, in other words, you and I. Anyone who expects our mp to represent us, will be sorely dissapointed but not suprised.
Hannah Lamb
2024-10-10 06:24:06
Doesn't affect the rich, doesn't affect the people who use state schools but affects those in the middle disproportionately. Those struggling to afford it, those on bursaries, those with kids who weren't coping in a failing state system. Those who could have had a choice about the school they applied for but now has missed application deadlines or their kids are mid exams. I've voted labour all my life but I will never vote for them again.
Andy T
2024-10-10 16:58:11
There seems to be quite a lot of confusion in these comments. It is if people believe that VAT is being charged on school fees. It isn’t. Charities are losing their charitable exemption of 80% on the cost of business rates for their premises. Consider this… Institute of Education studies have shown that the quality of education you receive at a private school is no different from what you would receive as a state school. Most people think it is. But if you screen for all other background factors, the same child from the identical family background to those who would normally attend a private school would achieve the similar standard of exam results to the children educated privately. That background would contain parents who are educationally motivated, higher achievers themselves, hold managerial responsibility, have a wide interest in cultural activities etc. Many of these are not educational, but are reasons this cohort are confident and aspirational. Education research has also shown that the main motivation behind parents sending their children to private schools is to get smaller class sizes and to mix with people from a similar background. For sure they believe that this results in better education, generally because that’s what appears to come out of private schools: high achieving children. Yet they are the equivalent of that segment of higher achieving children from other schools across the country. Private schools may result in more studious children, children absorbing more information and answering more questions right in exams, but you be the judge of whether that is the same as ‘education’. (Clue: if you do then you are getting what you pay for and think that proves you’re right). So in sending your children to private schools you are actually paying for private goods and services - i.e. exclusive buildings in which your children will be educated. It is on these exclusive buildings, which previously qualified for business tax exemption, you are spending your money. But these newly introduced changes result in the school having to pay full tax on them because it is running a business from them. That business may have charitable motives in delivering education, but you can get the same education elsewhere for free (not free, of course, because your taxes paid for it!) So for clarity, parents who pay for private education will not pay more because it has VAT on it. Rather the school may have to put up the price of education because one element of delivering it now costs more: the cost of its buildings. But not the educational element (teachers, books, heating and lighting etc) as that costs the same as it always did. If you think that’s not fair vote for a different government next time. Personally I think it’s fair and reasonable - as one of the 93% who have no family history of private education.
Andy T
2024-10-10 17:02:04
Bibby - they are not taxing private school fees.
Andy T
2024-10-10 17:43:35
Aplogies Bibby - I got that wrong! They are charging VAT on school fees but that allows the school to recover VAT elsewhere so that the total impact of the VAT charges is not the equivalent of Education going up 20%… as VAT can be recovered elsewhere so the total cost of the education of the child will go more like 10 to 15%.
Sidney
2024-10-10 22:05:55
I know a couple who work their socks off to send their two children to private school. They drive a 15 year old car with a bumper patched with duct tape. Now this awful Labour government have made it harder for them for no other reason than politics.
David Forman
2024-10-11 09:28:37
Schools Week website produced an excellent article on Labour's education plans in June this year. It says: "Labour will end the VAT exemption and business rates relief for private schools." The VAT applies to supplies it buys in, such as stationery. However, I support this policy. I don't see why private schools should get an advantage over any other business. I am fully supportive of parents wanting to send their kids to private schools, just like Diane Abbott did.
Steve
2024-10-11 14:25:35
The education Secretary, Bridget Phillipson, posted a rant about private schools on X last Saturday evening, part of which was, "...our children need careers advice more than private schools need astroturf pitches." You can tell how strongly she feels about private schools and people using them. But hang on... earlier that day, Ms Phillipson was playing hockey on an astroturf pitch, at (wait for it), a private school! The hypocrisy of the people in this Labour government knows no bounds.
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